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Post by Izad on Sept 29, 2009 14:19:19 GMT -5
I wasnt at Badon when this occured. But i have talked to Vors in length about it after i read his apology thread.
This "fight" was agreed upon himself and Rog months ago. Nobody went into the fight angry and it wasnt a heated arguement that lead to it. There wasnt any angry screaming or yelling. It was 2 freinds that decided to punch each other. It doesnt matter if Vors had to go to the hospital for it, its not as if any member of Maeth is going to have to pay Vors' hospital bill except for himself.
Both involved actually warned the people sitting around them that there was going to be a friendly, agreed upon fight.
Dominus, though he isnt in charge of Maeth or any other Unit or Realm except for his own, said that he doesnt care what happened or how. Just that they tend to their injuries. But he was in charge of Badon Hill IV. If the host of the National Event doesnt care i dont think its a big deal.
No kind of punishment should even be allowed in this case. I think this is just Admins using power that they dont have and they are going power mad.
I also dont think that there should be any kind of punishment by an admin if an admin wasnt there. That being said, i believe that with the rules set forth and the Unit requirements that were recently posted, Admins are using a lot of the power that they dont have. It isnt fair to the Unit members/creators. There hasnt been any problems with getting Maeth members into units so i dont know why all of a sudden Admins feel that someone is needed to be present when someone is trying out for a unit. And who is going to enforce these rules if it is an Admin that needs the disipline? Are we just supposed to take it on faith that the Admins are going to punish each other or just take the punishment themselves?
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Post by Mulesak(Paragon) on Sept 29, 2009 14:47:32 GMT -5
I agree with Izad.
One of the things that attracted me to Maeth was that it was so laid back. Now it seems to be taking the totalitarian way. You are saying, that if by some miracle I were able to continue the building of siege weapons, I would not be allowed to bring them, or my team into Maeth without one of the admins being there, cause lets face it, it would be a whole new unit. And it wouldnt matter that the guys who worked on them with me put in the time, I couldnt promote any of them to "siege master" without a Maeth admin?
Seems kinda bad for buisness.
I agree that some organization is needed to keep the realm active, but you seem to be going about it the wrong way. ADMIN should take a minute to look around, and see if their base is as secure as they thought, or if they are alienating it......
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Post by Haze on Sept 29, 2009 14:50:35 GMT -5
There is much confusion that exists right now. And you have voiced some of my concerns. Mulesak seems to mostly be hitting on the trials thing, which is very weird right now I suggest (and I am just a mere mortal here) ignoring that for now in your unit plans because I can almost guarantee it will change.
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Post by Swordbrother Nova on Sept 29, 2009 14:54:08 GMT -5
No, not a maeth admin, just another member of maeth that isn't the unit. And that's only if you have a trial that they have to go through rather than just promoting them.
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Post by Haze on Sept 29, 2009 14:56:45 GMT -5
I can tell you that that specific rule, although I do very much disagree with, was made in the best interest of the realm for the time being. A lot of things are being rethought right now and I'm sure the administrators would appreciate just a bit of patience.
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Post by Mulesak(Paragon) on Sept 29, 2009 15:09:08 GMT -5
Im not quite awake yet, sorry. I seem to snatch only a snippet or two of each topic..
But I also agree on the protest of the fighting.
If you look at it from the outside.
Since the two of them had agreed upon rules/ concessions, it is technically not a fight per say, but a structured event.
Really, the only difference between this and a standard dag event, is that they didnt use padded weapons.
And if the host couldnt care, then why should a punishment occur?
Before it is declared "a fight", a few things need to be answered.
1) was it spur of the moment/moment of passion combat or planned ahead of time?
2) did either of the participants enter into it with malice or hatred?
3) were there a bunch of people around shouting things like "punch him sissy" or "if you two dont start soon, Im gonna kick both of your asses"?
4) did the combatants stand face-to-face, fists ready saying back and forth to each other, "you throw the first punch. No, YOU throw the first punch."?
5) was there pushing and girlly slapperage?
6) did either of them, after winning/losing go tell a teacher...err leader?
Hrm..I may have lost my train of thought there, and flashed back to the standard HS fight scene in the boys bathroom.....
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Post by Haze on Sept 29, 2009 15:10:28 GMT -5
Let us all remember the first rule of Fight Club
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Post by Swordbrother Nova on Sept 29, 2009 15:21:21 GMT -5
Ha ha ha nicely done, thanks for lightening things up.
The big problem I have with this is that someone ended up hurt from it, not just sore, hurt, he had to go to the hospital. And even though the event coordinator didn't care (I'm not surprised, Dominus doesn't care about something unless it makes him look good) Had the camp ground owners found out would they have cared? And you know if a mundane camper were there they'd have thrown a fit.
People can be and have been thrown out of events, as can entire units, I wouldn't be surprised if a realm got thrown out. A Primary concern is that that could have easily happened.
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Post by Mulesak(Paragon) on Sept 29, 2009 15:23:21 GMT -5
I'm gonna end my comments with a standard reply from the Tribalwar forum.
"Pics or it didnt happen"
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Post by Lucius on Sept 29, 2009 16:29:55 GMT -5
OK, now that cooler heads seem t o have prevailed, here's what's going on.
Izad - we're not going power mad. Here's what's going on with Vors. Right now he's not going to be on the field because of medical leave. It's kind of a privacy thing, otherwise i'd tell you more. Once he gets clearance from his doctor that he can fight again, the admins aren't going to go all crazy on him. In fact, we set up a system to show you that we specifically weren't going crazy on him. We just didn't unveil it yet because we're not sure when we'll have to (since we don't know when Vors will be off medical leave).
Anyway, we're going to do a tribunal. Each admin picks a juror, then the accused (Vors in this case) picks three jurors. The jurors get together and hear the case put forth by the admins and then by the accused, and then a 4/6 majority decides the case.
I went over this with Vors, and he was OK with it, so please don't insert yourself in business that doesn't concern you Izad. I appreciate that you are concerned, but this issue has been dealth with.
Frankly, I'm really surprised that Dominus didn't care. But even if he didn't Dominus isn't our realm leader; Merc, Nova and I are. Even if it was a 'friendly' fight, it still reflects badly on our realm, and Dagorhir as a whole.
Paragon, I think Nova's already addressed it that it just has to be a Maethodoron member, not an administrator. This is just a safety thing. There have been concerns in the past about certain initiation practices that may have been unsafe. We just want to make sure our members are safe when they join a non-realm unit.
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Post by Morguinness on Sept 29, 2009 17:09:29 GMT -5
I'd like to know who decided who was going to be an "Admin" and what powers they have. I don't recall being asked to vote on it or anything.
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Post by Haze on Sept 29, 2009 17:13:28 GMT -5
Locking this, Morguinness I promise you will get an satisfying answer to that soon.
In the mean time, the short answer is Mercaine decided.
Mercaine started the realm, he is in charge ultimately. He decided that Lucius and Nova were administrators with him after Araduin and Tiradora stepped down.
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