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Post by Haze on Sept 29, 2009 22:33:14 GMT -5
But is that it, is it just about the vote that those people are upset about.. I have no idea.
And yeah sorry people can't keep up on the boards, we started mass mailings and twitter text message alerts but there is only so far out of the way that we have to go.And most of that is me, and I'm not even an administrator I'm just doing it to help out. If you aren't at practice, aren't on the boards, and don't contact anyone there is only so much you can expect you know..
These people if they really have some problems with the way things are being run (which I really can't see anything except the vote issue, and that is fair enough) then please have them pass along their concerns to somebody that can post them for them or let the proper channels know.
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Post by araduin on Sept 29, 2009 22:48:33 GMT -5
Elections, by the way, are only legitimate if they are for ALL admins, not just the new ones...
Lucius, I'm with you. I wish everyone paid attention to these boards. It would make life easier. But if you have an election, you CANNOT have a fair one on this board. There's no way in hell you could make sure it was a fair one. It would have to be in person, no member that's too new can vote (preventing someone from bringing 50 of his or her closest non-Dag friends to the election), and someone outside the realm should officiate it (like Alric from Angaron or Aondor from Black Tower).
By the way, if there's an election, I'd be abstaining from voting. I'm moving out of Maeth territory, and I don't feel I should have any say in that decision anymore.
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Post by kira on Sept 29, 2009 22:51:16 GMT -5
First, I agree that this all has to be figured out soon. Maethodoron WILL lose membership if it cannot function in a way that everyone can agree with.
Votes are a MUST! Votes have to be arranged both online and in person, so that access is given to people who are on the boards and those who are not. I would recommend that before a vote is posted, it will be announced at practice that there will be a vote. The vote will be accessible online for a week, and at the end of that week, anyone who heard about the vote at the first practice, but did not have online access, can turn in a paper vote at the practice concluding the polling.
I believe that the way new admins were decided is in poor taste because (1) the lack of a vote, (2) the stated presence of several other interested parties was lied about to the group, and (3) there was no set time for applicants or nominees. This said, I think the new leadership are good, responsible people, but the way that their positions were arranged was in poor taste and not to the benefit of the group.
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Post by Haze on Sept 29, 2009 22:56:52 GMT -5
Its all very good points, I myself was saying that things are wearing thin after 3-4 years and need rehashed and rethought. I'd suggest people wait to here from Mercaine before proceeding any further. In the mean time if anyone has anything else at all to say about how things are run please I think now is the best time to get them on the table.
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Post by kira on Sept 29, 2009 22:59:58 GMT -5
Also, because the issue of Vors' punishment is part of "what's been going on" that affects the whole realm and because the protest thread is locked, I feel that this IS an entirely proper place to say that
whether or not to punish Vors would be a matter of changing Maethodoron law, as there is no current law that addresses what he did. The only Dagorhir laws that address improper or illegal behavior say that it is within the event leaders' rights to eject the offender from the event that the offense took place at.
There is NO LAW preventing Vors from continuing to come to Maethodoron practices
unless the realm as a whole decides to create a law to do so.
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Post by Haze on Sept 29, 2009 23:05:02 GMT -5
This is absolutely correct, and creating realm wide bylaws was discussed in the admin forum but I believe they first wanted to sort out who and what admins were first.
and the reason I locked that thread is because it was heading into the "who elected you" direction and less about what actually happened
also keep in mind Vors has received no punishment from anyone at this point lol, people are over thinking everything
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Post by Tiradora on Sept 29, 2009 23:05:46 GMT -5
any chance we can start a new thread entirely about elections? being that, as Kira said, this was originally started to discuss Vors' incident. once the election thread is started, all the details can be hashed out. obviously, not everything has to be done as a vote. so it would be silly to have a vote about how to take a vote. anyone who accesses the boards can comment on how they think the voting process should go. and everyone reading the boards should make sure their friends know that the discussion is happening. if you know someone doesn't have internet access, give them a call. tell them what's going on and relay their ideas if they have some.
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Post by kira on Sept 29, 2009 23:08:01 GMT -5
I wanted to add that because, while no decision has been made, Lucius let it slip that there would probably be something similar to a trial, and I just wanted to say that a jury of six hand-picked people cannot rewrite the realm laws on their own to deal with this issue.
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Post by Lucius on Sept 29, 2009 23:14:58 GMT -5
Kira, At this point, we really don't have a body of realm law. There's precedent in the thing that Nova posted, but as far as I know that was meant for 'fights' that consisted of exchanges of words on the field. There is no procedure for a fistfight.
I'm sorry that you think I 'let it slip' that we might try the trial. It was an idea that the administrators thought up to prove that we were trying to be fair and include everyone in the decision. It certainly wasn't anything definite, just something that I had talked to Vors about and that he approved for his case.
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Post by kira on Sept 29, 2009 23:24:13 GMT -5
Lucius, we do have realm laws. Administrations aren't run by feelings and opinions. In democratically run groups, leaders only serve to enact laws established by members. We have laws. We might decided to change some laws. Every decision should be in keeping with those laws and not people's feelings.
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Post by Haze on Sept 29, 2009 23:25:51 GMT -5
Please don't take this the wrong way at all but could you show me the realm laws? Where are they available?
All I can find is a defunct message board Terms of service for the yahoo group.
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Post by araduin on Sept 29, 2009 23:33:54 GMT -5
No, actually, we tried to establish rules about fighting once, but I don't think we ever did (otherwise, we'd be referring to those now). That's part of our problem; we never had any rules that we could refer to.
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Post by Swordbrother Nova on Sept 29, 2009 23:36:11 GMT -5
I'm working on some suggestions in the other thread.
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Post by kira on Sept 29, 2009 23:39:51 GMT -5
The general rules are:
The Chapter will:
1. Abide by all applicable federal, state, and local laws.
2. Maintain a positive relationship with government organizations, the public, and with other Dagorhir groups.
3. Operate as a non-profit entity. All proceeds from Dagorhir events and related sources must be used for the furtherance of the Chapter or of Dagorhir as a whole (for example, to pay costs of advertising, insurance, materials for “loaner” equipment, or site-use fees). All Dagorhir Chapter positions shall be on a completely unpaid volunteer basis. Proceeds from running Dagorhir events and related sources may never be used for personal profit. Chapters may choose to incorporate or otherwise file for official government recognition of their non-profit status. Should the Chapter choose to incorporate, such incorporation shall have no effect on this contract, and both the Chapter and DBGA will remain bound by the terms and obligations of this contract.
4. Follow the Dagorhir Gaming Rules System, without deletion or alteration, for all events. Chapters may add rules in addition to those in the Dagorhir Gaming Rules System, as long as they do not decrease the safety of the fighting or over-rule the basic tenets of the Dagorhir Gaming Rules System. (For example, but not limited to: all weapons must be safely padded and checked for safety at every event; hits to the head or neck from hand-held weapons are illegal; etc.)
5. Elect officers through fair and equitable means. At a minimum, these officers shall be the Administrator, Administrative Assistant, and Book Keeper. More positions may be created and staffed as the needs of the Chapter dictate. At least two of these officers must be at least 18 years of age or older. It is the responsibility of the Administrator to notify DBGA via email to chapters@dagorhir.com of the election of, or changes to, the Chapter’s officers. The Administrator and at least one other designate shall maintain an email address and phone number through which s/he can be contacted by DBGA, including notifying DBGA in a timely manner via email to chapters@dagorhir.com of any changes to the Chapter contact information.
6. Refrain from reproducing any Dagorhir-related copyrighted materials for sale or broad distribution without the express written consent of an authorized official of DBGA except as provided under “DGBA will” #2, below.
7. Hold Dagorhir events an average of at least once per month. Events may be (but are not limited to) Battles, Tournaments, Feasts, Seminars, Practices in Garb, etc. Event fees must be kept reasonable and are subject to the approval of DBGA.
8. Keep all Chapter events open for participation of the entire membership of the Chapter and of Dagorhir and to new members interested in joining.
9. Treat all members equally and fairly, without regard to race, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, color, creed, religion, disability, or age. Any restrictions instituted for safety and/or reduction of liability must be fair and nondiscriminatory.
10. Maintain accurate financial, attendance, and membership records. These records must at all times be open for review by any Chapter member, DBGA officers, or appropriate governmental entities upon request.
11. Dagorhir Chapters must promote themselves exclusively as Dagorhir organizations; that is, their website and all published material must show the Chapter to be exclusively a Dagorhir group and not a member of any other organization, regardless of members’ participation in other activities.
As for rules that chapters "may add," I think Maethodoron's specific rules should be posted soon (maybe as a link on the web page?), as they are not publically available at present. Being that admins and heralds frequently reference "house rules," I like to think that an admin somewhere has a written copy.
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Post by Swordbrother Nova on Sept 29, 2009 23:45:29 GMT -5
can we get a link or something so we can put those up?
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